Difference between Tags 52,60 and 122

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Imported from previous forum

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[ original email was from Sunandan Ganguly - sunandan.ganguly@csfb.com ]
Okay guys. I dont know if this has already been discussed in some thread before.

But, can someone tell me the difference between tags 52 (Sending Time ) and 122 ( Orig Sending time) ? I understand tag 60 is the time when the trade is done at the other end.

Any help will be appreciated.

3

[ original email was from Zul Kagalwalla - zkagalwalla@fmco.com ]
> Okay guys. I dont know if this has already been discussed in some

thread before.

But, can someone tell me the difference between tags 52 (Sending Time )
and 122 ( Orig Sending time) ? I understand tag 60 is the time when the
trade is done at the other end.

Any help will be appreciated.
Here is how I believe 122 should be used.
When the message re-transmiitted then 122= contents of 52( the message you are re-sending/re-transmitting).

4

[ original email was from Matthew Chimento - matthew.chimento@nyfix.com ]
> Okay guys. I dont know if this has already been discussed in some

thread before.

But, can someone tell me the difference between tags 52 (Sending Time )
and 122 ( Orig Sending time) ? I understand tag 60 is the time when the
trade is done at the other end.

Any help will be appreciated.

SendingTime is a session level concept set by the sending engine, and TransactTime is an application level concept. As a result, this allows detection for any latency in between the two engines.

I read this from somewhere and I might be paraphrasing here but the history behind OrigSendingTime (122) goes back to FIX 4.0 Previously if one used SendingTime as the timestamp of a message which did not have a TransactTime (i.e. Indication of Interest), then one would have problems if that message was resent (result of ResendRequest). Again, it would be best to think of SendingTime/OrigSendingTime as being more of a session-level concept (part of the standard header) and TransactTime as a business message concept.

5

But, can someone tell me the difference between tags 52 (Sending Time )
and 122 ( Orig Sending time) ? I understand tag 60 is the time when the
trade is done at the other end.

This is a session level concept for messages resent due to a ResendRequest. Using OrigSendingTime the receiver knows when the message has been sent the first time (and saved in the message store for later resends). OrigSendingTime has to be present if tag 43(PossDup)=Y:

TIME t+0: FIX message M( 52=“t+0” )
…
TIME t+N: incoming ResendRequest
resending from message store: M( 43=Y 52=“t+N” 122=“t+0” )

As you already understood, tag 60 is application/business level and completely unrelated to header tags 52 and 122.

Cheers, Jörg

6

In a FIX user terms, Tag 52 (SendingTime) is stamped by the FIX engine (session level) for user to identify when the message was sent from FIX engine to the client App, whereas tag 60 (TransactTime) is stamped by the counter-party stating the exact time of transaction. These two could be potentially different, depending on how much a delay it is between a transaction and message arrival.

  • Amit V.

Okay guys. I dont know if this has already been discussed in some
thread before.

But, can someone tell me the difference between tags 52 (Sending Time )
and 122 ( Orig Sending time) ? I understand tag 60 is the time when the
trade is done at the other end.

Any help will be appreciated.

7

[ original email was from Sunandan Ganguly - sunandan.ganguly@csfb.com ]
Thanks a lot everyone.
Appreciate your help.

In a FIX user terms, Tag 52 (SendingTime) is stamped by the FIX engine
(session level) for user to identify when the message was sent from FIX
engine to the client App, whereas tag 60 (TransactTime) is stamped by
the counter-party stating the exact time of transaction. These two could
be potentially different, depending on how much a delay it is between a
transaction and message arrival.

  • Amit V.

Okay guys. I dont know if this has already been discussed in some
thread before.

But, can someone tell me the difference between tags 52 (Sending Time
) and 122 ( Orig Sending time) ? I understand tag 60 is the time when
the trade is done at the other end.

Any help will be appreciated.

8

Hi everyone,

When you send a new order single you send tag 52 in header and also tag 60 in application part as mandatory parameter.Can somebody tell me the utility of these two different fields in a order single message.

and also why the tag 52 is not mandatory in Header from fix version 4.4

Thanks a lot everyone. Appreciate your help.

In a FIX user terms, Tag 52 (SendingTime) is stamped by the FIX engine
(session level) for user to identify when the message was sent from
FIX engine to the client App, whereas tag 60 (TransactTime) is stamped
by the counter-party stating the exact time of transaction. These two
could be potentially different, depending on how much a delay it is
between a transaction and message arrival.

  • Amit V.

Okay guys. I dont know if this has already been discussed in some
thread before.

But, can someone tell me the difference between tags 52 (Sending
Time ) and 122 ( Orig Sending time) ? I understand tag 60 is the
time when the trade is done at the other end.

Any help will be appreciated.

9

[ original email was from Andrei Goldchleger - agoldchleger@bmf.com.br ]
> Hi everyone,

When you send a new order single you send tag 52 in header and also tag
60 in application part as mandatory parameter.Can somebody tell me the
utility of these two different fields in a order single message.

and also why the tag 52 is not mandatory in Header from fix version 4.4

52-> Session level info, i.e., when the message is sent
60-> business level info, for example, the moment that the trader presses to submit an order.

And 52 is required in 4.4 and 5.0.

10

Hi everyone,

When you send a new order single you send tag 52 in header and also
tag 60 in application part as mandatory parameter.Can somebody tell me
the utility of these two different fields in a order single message.

and also why the tag 52 is not mandatory in Header from fix
version 4.4

52-> Session level info, i.e., when the message is sent 60-> business
level info, for example, the moment that the trader presses to
submit an order.

And 52 is required in 4.4 and 5.0.

HI

Thanks for your quick reply.

I just discovered sending time marked as N (Not mandatory)
in standard header at following link.

http://fixprotocol.org/specifications/fix4.4fiximate/index.html

I think it is diplaying wrong information.

I still don understand the time differnce between the sendingtime and transact time. What can i infer from the time difference?

Regards
Deepak

11

[ original email was from Dale Hinners - dale@taltrade.com ]
> > > Hi everyone,

When you send a new order single you send tag 52 in header and also
tag 60 in application part as mandatory parameter.Can somebody tell
me the utility of these two different fields in a order single
message.

and also why the tag 52 is not mandatory in Header from fix
version 4.4

52-> Session level info, i.e., when the message is sent 60-> business
level info, for example, the moment that the trader presses to
submit an order.

And 52 is required in 4.4 and 5.0.

HI

Thanks for your quick reply.

I just discovered sending time marked as N (Not mandatory) in standard
header at following link.

http://fixprotocol.org/specifications/fix4.4fiximate/index.html

I think it is diplaying wrong information.

I still don understand the time differnce between the sendingtime and
transact time. What can i infer from the time difference?

Regards Deepak

SendingTime generally refers to the time your system sends the FIX message. TransactTime refers to the physical action of the FIX event. In other words, your system may send a Fill execution report at 1:53:15 (SendingTime) but the Fill execution time was actually at 1:53:14. This kind of information is usually used for compliance reporting to indicate when the actual fills, cancels, etc happened at an exchange or other destination.

Most systems are so fast these days that they are essentially identical depending on the level of granularity specified.

Dale Hinners

12

Hi everyone,

When you send a new order single you send tag 52 in header and
also tag 60 in application part as mandatory parameter.Can
somebody tell me the utility of these two different fields in a
order single message.

and also why the tag 52 is not mandatory in Header from fix
version 4.4

52-> Session level info, i.e., when the message is sent 60->
business level info, for example, the moment that the trader presses
to submit an order.

And 52 is required in 4.4 and 5.0.

HI

Thanks for your quick reply.

I just discovered sending time marked as N (Not mandatory) in standard
header at following link.

http://fixprotocol.org/specifications/fix4.4fiximate/index.html

I think it is diplaying wrong information.

I still don understand the time differnce between the sendingtime and
transact time. What can i infer from the time difference?

Regards Deepak

SendingTime generally refers to the time your system sends the FIX
message. TransactTime refers to the physical action of the FIX event. In
other words, your system may send a Fill execution report at 1:53:15
(SendingTime) but the Fill execution time was actually at 1:53:14. This
kind of information is usually used for compliance reporting to indicate
when the actual fills, cancels, etc happened at an exchange or other
destination.

Most systems are so fast these days that they are essentially identical
depending on the level of granularity specified.

Dale Hinners

Thanks Dale for the clarification. But i would like to add one more thing here that for GTC and GTD’s i have seen different time stamps in these tags while sending Cancel/Replaces or Cancel Requests. 52 contained the current time and 60 had the time at which the original order was made.

I just wanted to check that whether this is complaint to fix protocol.

Thanks,
HAMMAD MALIK
MIXIT Inc

13

In my view this is not compliant. TransactTime is intended to be a current business timestamp when submitting the request, not a historical one, e.g. at the time of order creation.

It does not add value to the order modifications or deletions. The Executionreport has a repeating group for such timestamps, i.e. . The field TrdRegTimestampType reflects the nature of the timestamp.

SendingTime (52) is a purely technical timestamp in the header, i.e. the “envelope” of the message. It is not intended to provide business functions such as the detection of stale messages to protect the order submitter.

Thanks Dale for the clarification. But i would like to add one more
thing here that for GTC and GTD’s i have seen different time stamps in
these tags while sending Cancel/Replaces or Cancel Requests. 52
contained the current time and 60 had the time at which the original
order was made.

I just wanted to check that whether this is complaint to fix protocol.

Thanks, HAMMAD MALIK MIXIT Inc