FIX 4.4 - NoUnderlyings marked as required but has no mandatory tags

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Imported from previous forum

2

Hi,

We are working with a client who are requesting we send them an NoXXX=0 tag for an empty repeating group.

They say this is because the group in question (NoUnderlyings - tag 711) is required. In FIXimate, the group has the ‘Required’ tick against it in the AK message, yet none of the tags in the group appear to be mandatory.

Why is it marked as ‘Required’ then?

We are suggesting to client that we don’t send NoXXX=0 tags at all as that appears to be the consensus I get from other posts on this subject.

Thanks

3

Hi Paul,

According to the FIX repository (http://www.fixprotocol.org/repository-2010): in FIX version 4.4, the UndInstrmtGrp component is marked as requires in the Conformation message (35=AK).

On the other hand, there are no required tags or components within the UndInstrmtGrp component (or any other nested component).

So I checked the FIX 4.4 specification (http://www.fixprotocol.org/documents/346/fix-44_w_Errata_20030618_PDF.zip) volume 5, page 49 mark tag 711 as reuired!

For reason listed above, if you are using FIX 4.4, technically your client is right and tag 711 is required in the confirmation message.

Note that in FIX version 5.0SP2 that is not the case, i.e. UndInstrmtGrp is not marked as required.

Yuval

Hi,

We are working with a client who are requesting we send them an NoXXX=0 tag for an empty repeating group.

They say this is because the group in question (NoUnderlyings - tag 711) is required. In FIXimate, the group has the ‘Required’ tick against it in the AK message, yet none of the tags in the group appear to be mandatory.

Why is it marked as ‘Required’ then?

We are suggesting to client that we don’t send NoXXX=0 tags at all as that appears to be the consensus I get from other posts on this subject.

Thanks

4

Correct, a repeating group marked as required needs to be provided in the message. Note that this means that at least two fields have to be present even if none of the group fields is explicitly marked as required. These two are the NoXXX field and the first field of the group as it serves as a delimiter of instances in the tag=value syntax. It seems that the confirmations message was initially designed for multileg instrument with an underlying and that therefore both UndInstrmntGrp and InstrmntLegGrp are required. This semantic was corrected in FIX 5 where they are both optional. The FPL policy on NoXXX=0 is “Sending NoXXX=0 (e.g. NoPartyIDs=0) for optional repeating group is valid but not recommended.”. You can send the following in order to comply with the policy:
NoUnderlyings=1

UnderlyingSymbol =“[N/A]”
NoLegs=1
LegSymbol =“[N/A]”
Regards,
Hanno.
Hi Paul,

According to the FIX repository (http://www.fixprotocol.org/repository-2010): in FIX version 4.4, the UndInstrmtGrp component is marked as requires in the Conformation message (35=AK).

On the other hand, there are no required tags or components within the UndInstrmtGrp component (or any other nested component).

So I checked the FIX 4.4 specification (http://www.fixprotocol.org/documents/346/fix-44_w_Errata_20030618_PDF.zip) volume 5, page 49 mark tag 711 as reuired!

For reason listed above, if you are using FIX 4.4, technically your client is right and tag 711 is required in the confirmation message.

Note that in FIX version 5.0SP2 that is not the case, i.e. UndInstrmtGrp is not marked as required.

Yuval

Hi,

We are working with a client who are requesting we send them an NoXXX=0 tag for an empty repeating group.

They say this is because the group in question (NoUnderlyings - tag 711) is required. In FIXimate, the group has the ‘Required’ tick against it in the AK message, yet none of the tags in the group appear to be mandatory.

Why is it marked as ‘Required’ then?

We are suggesting to client that we don’t send NoXXX=0 tags at all as that appears to be the consensus I get from other posts on this subject.

Thanks

5

Whilst Hanno state the ‘recommended’ - best practices, in this specific case, it is sufficient and practical to have:

NoUnderlyings=0
NoLegs=0

See FIX 4.4 specifications Volume 1, page 19:
“If the repeating group is used, the first field of the repeating group is required. This allows implementations of the protocol to use the first field as a “delimiter” indicating a new repeating group entry. The first field listed after the NoXXX, then becomes conditionally required if the NoXXX field is greater than zero.”

Yuval

Correct, a repeating group marked as required needs to be provided in the message. Note that this means that at least two fields have to be present even if none of the group fields is explicitly marked as required. These two are the NoXXX field and the first field of the group as it serves as a delimiter of instances in the tag=value syntax. It seems that the confirmations message was initially designed for multileg instrument with an underlying and that therefore both UndInstrmntGrp and InstrmntLegGrp are required. This semantic was corrected in FIX 5 where they are both optional. The FPL policy on NoXXX=0 is “Sending NoXXX=0 (e.g. NoPartyIDs=0) for optional repeating group is valid but not recommended.”. You can send the following in order to comply with the policy:
NoUnderlyings=1

UnderlyingSymbol =“[N/A]”
NoLegs=1
LegSymbol =“[N/A]”
Regards,
Hanno.
Hi Paul,

According to the FIX repository (http://www.fixprotocol.org/repository-2010): in FIX version 4.4, the UndInstrmtGrp component is marked as requires in the Conformation message (35=AK).

On the other hand, there are no required tags or components within the UndInstrmtGrp component (or any other nested component).

So I checked the FIX 4.4 specification (http://www.fixprotocol.org/documents/346/fix-44_w_Errata_20030618_PDF.zip) volume 5, page 49 mark tag 711 as reuired!

For reason listed above, if you are using FIX 4.4, technically your client is right and tag 711 is required in the confirmation message.

Note that in FIX version 5.0SP2 that is not the case, i.e. UndInstrmtGrp is not marked as required.

Yuval

Hi,

We are working with a client who are requesting we send them an NoXXX=0 tag for an empty repeating group.

They say this is because the group in question (NoUnderlyings - tag 711) is required. In FIXimate, the group has the ‘Required’ tick against it in the AK message, yet none of the tags in the group appear to be mandatory.

Why is it marked as ‘Required’ then?

We are suggesting to client that we don’t send NoXXX=0 tags at all as that appears to be the consensus I get from other posts on this subject.

Thanks